Season 5 General Discussion

Moving this from the Media thread... As someone noted in the comments to Maureen Ryan's column in the Tribune, even in the informal poll there wasn't agreement about Thirteen, so I don't think that anyone out there can speak for authority on what "fandom" does or doesn't want, nor should the producers attempt to appease any faction of the fandom. Yes, Mo Ryan dislikes 13, as does Alan Sepinwall. But the Boston.com review from a month or so ago loved her, and this week's AV Club review calls the Thirteen and Foreman relationship "one of the pleasant surprises of the season." Two years ago, USAToday's critic was practically calling for a boycott during the Tritter saga, now he's completely on board. Critics have different opinions too. Go figure. They can't (nor should they) tailor the show to appease any segment of the audience because they won't end up doing it "right" in the eyes of those fans and they'll alienate the people who liked it the way it was. But it seems to me that what gets segments of the fandom in an uproar is when they throw the show out of balance. People who hate Cameron always cite the fact that half of Season 1 seemed to be about her crush. People like me, who disliked Foreman in Season 2, didn't hate him until there were 200 episodes in a row in Season 3 all about his resigning. And Thirteen's haters complain about the fact that Season 5 has been all about her. If Thirteen's illness and issues were a storyline running through the season rather than the storyline dominating it, I don't think the character's supporters would like her less. And the Triskaidekaphobes would tolerate her if they didn't feel that the focus on her was pushing the other characters (including House) out of the picture.

I agree. The only thing I hope the writers take away from this type of feedback is that the show is not an ensemble and all roads need to lead to House. And preferably those roads come from all different directions rather than an overkill on one side. Whether Cameron, Thirteen, Cuddy, Wilson or Foreman. Poor Chase has never had the remo-*test*-('") possibility of overkill since season one, and Kutner and Taub so far show no signs of the dreaded in your face syndrome. Which is in their favour, really, because overfocus has not helped the overall appreciation of any character.

If Thirteen's illness and issues were a storyline running through the season rather than the storyline dominating it, I don't think the character's supporters would like her less. And the Triskaidekaphobes would tolerate her if they didn't feel that the focus on her was pushing the other characters (including House) out of the picture. Yes, Thirteen has been getting too much attention. Big surprise there, since the show's main failing again and again has been in spending too much time on whatever arc was going on -- the Vogler arc was too long, Stacy arc should have been cut, God knows Tritter should have been trimmed and the Numbers didn't need quite the number of episodes devoted to the survivor games. And yes, to me this is the "Thirteen" arc. I don't read spoilers, so I have no way of knowing what's going to happen in the future, but I see her story as an arc that has a beginning, middle and end, and I do expect an end in some way. For that matter, I think the last few episodes have finally gotten to the heart of matter and started hitting the right notes with her story. The problem is that they wasted so much time and good will getting to that point. But ... while that's an issue, it's hardly ruining the season for me. Call me Pollyanna if you will, but I'd rather focus on what's good, rather than -- what to me is a minor -- annoyance. I simply don't have the energy to waste on bitterness, so I let it slide and deal with what's good. So what's good? Plenty. I love that we've been seeing House and Wilson truly enjoying each other, and the way they worked their way back into that enjoyment. I love seeing House flummoxed by having to deal with his feelings for Cuddy, and being unable to handle them and flailing so poorly, and HL's acting in those scenes is, as always, fantastic. I've loved watching Cuddy's heartbreak, in a weird sense that comes with watching someone else's heart be broken, and I love Wilson coming back to life post-Amber and finding joy in his life, even if it's in trying to set up House and Cuddy, or playing inscrutable with House. Taub and Kutner both have been a highlight for me. They work off of each other well, like a well oiled comedy team and the fact that Taub isn't afraid to give House crap (as in "Joy to The World") gives us someone in a really interesting position. I like the fact that we're seeing a Chase who's really matured into his own way of life, who's capable of setting boundaries and sticking to them. (Even if I don't agree with him at the time.) Now as I mentioned in the media thread, the procedural aspect to me is the most boring part of the show. It's why my least favorite episodes are in the first season, typically, and why this season -- with a heavier emphasis on the emotional lives of the characters, v. the "mystery" -- is far stronger to me, personally. So to make a long comment short ... I agree Thirteen is getting too much emphasis now, but she's hardly been the ruination of the show. She's a minor annoyance to me which I can overlook in the grand scheme of things, nothing more.

Thank you Poeia. Out of balance is what it is. Well-said. Triskaidekaphobia. That is the malady. Not harmful in small doses but highly susceptible to OD, especially when combined with foremaniosis: toxic! The only sure cure is complete quiet and a respectable distance from the big spotlight.

*cuddles up to Namaste* You speak my mind, girl. The only thing that would make that post better would be some of your homemade mac 'n cheese. :D :heart:

*cuddles up to Namaste* You speak my mind, girl. The only thing that would make that post better would be some of your homemade mac 'n cheese. Yup to all the above!

If Thirteen's illness and issues were a storyline running through the season rather than the storyline dominating it, I don't think the character's supporters would like her less. And the Triskaidekaphobes would tolerate her if they didn't feel that the focus on her was pushing the other characters (including House) out of the picture. Yes, Thirteen has been getting too much attention. Big surprise there, since the show's main failing again and again has been in spending too much time on whatever arc was going on -- the Vogler arc was too long, Stacy arc should have been cut, God knows Tritter should have been trimmed and the Numbers didn't need quite the number of episodes devoted to the survivor games. And yes, to me this is the "Thirteen" arc. I don't read spoilers, so I have no way of knowing what's going to happen in the future, but I see her story as an arc that has a beginning, middle and end, and I do expect an end in some way. For that matter, I think the last few episodes have finally gotten to the heart of matter and started hitting the right notes with her story. The problem is that they wasted so much time and good will getting to that point. Agree completely, that they're finally addressing 13's story properly, and that it's been too long in coming. But ... while that's an issue, it's hardly ruining the season for me. Call me Pollyanna if you will, but I'd rather focus on what's good, rather than -- what to me is a minor -- annoyance. I simply don't have the energy to waste on bitterness, so I let it slide and deal with what's good. What's good for me is different from what's good for you, but setting that aside, I don't think the season is ruined and I am pretty neutral about 13. But it's not as strong as some earlier seasons, and I think it's partly because House is only interacting with two people, whereas he used to deal with 5. There just isn't the same rapport, whether because of the writing or the fact that the old team was familiar, or some other reason. This really hurts the medical portion of the show IMO. I liked it better when that was the heart of the show. It's hard to pin down what exactly is different. All I know is, every week, I watch and hope to be drawn in to the story. It isn't happening as often as in previous years.

What's good for me is different from what's good for you, but setting that aside, I don't think the season is ruined and I am pretty neutral about 13. But it's not as strong as some earlier seasons, and I think it's partly because House is only interacting with two people, whereas he used to deal with 5. There just isn't the same rapport, whether because of the writing or the fact that the old team was familiar, or some other reason. This really hurts the medical portion of the show IMO. I liked it better when that was the heart of the show. It's hard to pin down what exactly is different. All I know is, every week, I watch and hope to be drawn in to the story. It isn't happening as often as in previous years. IMO, there were not strong, logical, organic character connections made between the new characters and the old. And that lack feeds the whole lopsided feel of every episode that follows. For me, this was re-emphasized with JTTW in the scene where Taub and Kutner went to Wilson looking for clues about House's behavior. Where did that come from? Aside from the time Wilson took over House's DDX way back in "97 Seconds" has Wilson ever once interacted with any of the new characters? I know many people enjoyed the Kutner/Taub duo but I spent the whole time wondering when they'd become Cameron--interested enough in the peripheral details of House to completely drop the DDX and wander off in favor of those pursuits and not the patient. The characters are now written so erratically and so illogically that I can literally see them move around like clunky chess pieces. Nothing is seamless on this show anymore. Again, with JTTW and Cuddy so overtly involved in the patient care was like a giant, obtrusive spotlight hanging over her head letting me know that this was her story. At this point, I can't imagine what would have to happen for me to enjoy 13. She's had every character development arc both last season and this season and, I'm sorry, she's not clicking. She will never click for me. And until TPTB figure out a way to bench this player, their stats are going to continue to slide. I really never thought I'd see the day where ultimate, ultimately fangirl Mo Ryan would throw up her hands and threaten to quit the show.

I definitely agree with the lack of natural character connections this season. In the first Chase, Cameron and Foreman just "clicked". They each had their own personalities, opinions and ethics but that didn't stop them from getting along, debating, hanging out, having regular conversations, and so on. In fact, it enhanced their friendship. It was fun to watch how these completely different people connected so naturally. Sure, every now and then they'd piss each other off (most notably was Foreman's attempt to infect Cameron in Euphoria) but in the end they still ... "clicked". And not just with each other - They clicked with House, and they even clicked with Wilson. (Wilson wasn't as much of an outsider as he is now in season 5). It always felt like he was part of the group when he entered House's conference room. It was also a nice touch to see the old team hanging out after hours. Drinking, chatting, general "friend stuff". They had lives outside of work, and they were all apart of each others lives. But with the new team ... nothing feels natural. None of them seem to "click" when they speak to each other. I can barely tell if they like or loathe each other sometimes. :( Their conversations also seem forced... they don't have regular discussions or debates on the ethics/morals/etc of a case. They don't do any of that fun stuff the old team did. It's just work, work, work (with a bit of added snark towards House). ... and their personalities just seem so ... random. I still can't figure out what their opinions/morals/etc are. Some episodes Thirteen might seem like "Cameron-lite", in other episodes she seems to have her own personality, then she'll later turn into a "Chase-lite", and so on. The new team just seems so one-dimensional - Like blank slates that the writers can write on or change at any moment they want. And I don't get the impression that House is connected to the new team either. Sure, the old team annoyed him and he thought they were idiots, but at times you could tell that he appreciated and even respected them. But with the new team ... he really seems to despise them. He just goes through a differential, sends them off to do -*test*-('")s, then avoids them for the rest of he episode as much as possible. Heck, I'm surprised he picked any of them for his team - They all seemed to annoy him during the survivor arc (except for Big Love ... who amused him). ... and Wilson isn't even a part of any of it. He rarely enters the conference room, let alone speaks with the new team. For anyone who couldn't be bothered reading all that, I can sum it up with this: The old team had warmth. The new team doesn't.

Wilson wasn't as much of an outsider as he is now in season 5. It always felt like he was part of the group when he entered House's conference room. To be fair the first time I think Wilson spoke with Chase - alone - was in the middle of the Tritter arc! Though, I agree that he seems detached from the DDX, but that has not only been happening in S5. Even before the Tritter arc Wilson was only present when the case was somehow related to cancer, unlike from S1 when Wilson was involved in whichever was the case - I love to see Wilson in as many scenes as possible, but it was a little unrealistic, like his only role was to follow House and translate him to the audience. In S1 it was fine, but it would have been tiresome if up to S5 he kept the same role. For me one of the main problems is the crowded cast. Too many characters and they still didn't find a way to create 'organic' ways to make them to interact with each other - it seems they are all old friends, but it's an artificial sensation, that it's there only to justify some of the plots. Also, it seems to have too many 'arcs' - or mini-arcs' - running at the same time. The story shifts from one event to another without consistence. And consistence is another problem for me: I don't expect resolutions - the show never gave those to us - but I expect to recognize the characters and be able to understand their motives. For the past six weeks what I've been seeing is a succession of unrealist, silly and over dramatic events that dragged the show and served the characters very poorly. As I said in another thread, the plots used to served the characters - that's how we were able to learn about them - but now is the opposite, they are using the characters to serve the most shocking kind of plots they can think about, and so the inconsistencies become more clear, the subtileness is almost inexistent. That's bothersome. The show is not ruined for me, yet! Nevertheless, I never thought it was supposed to be a 'farce' and, lately, this is the best definition I got to it.

I agree with most of what Lully said. I do agree that after S4 the cast grew too bloated, I cant for the life of me figure out why they kept Foreman / Chase / Cameron around ... imo it's was a cop out, they wanted to change but didnt want to alienate the fans by axing them so they kept them around, and after a certain point there just wasnt enough time per show to tell all the stories. Foreman got a part of what Cuddy/Wilson used to do (veto some of House's extreme calls) so Cuddy got relegated to ass/boob jokes and miniarcs that dont really fit the show (seriously, baby, House show, how do this two fit for longer than 3 epis) and Wilson got relegated to playing matchmaker and throwing one liners. IMO the biggest change between pre season 3 and post season 3 was the focus. Before it used to be the stories are there to tell you something about the characters. Nowadays, the characters are there to tell you a story and that bugs me cause if they keep on this path they will inevitably end up in soap land. House is not Grey's ... I wish they 'd stop trying to make it sensational and stay with what made me love the show. Though having said that, I must admit that I m not sure enough people out there would keep following the show if it had stayed stagnant.

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