Season 5 General Discussion

I think TTK had a very different introduction to House than CCF did, and that factored into how soon they realised he does and says shocking things. They went through a two month trial by fire where House threw everything he had at them to see which ones he wanted. CCF had a gentler trajectory to getting to know House. TTK still don't know the many layers of House, so they have lots yet to get to know. But they know the jerky exterior pretty well, as House let them have it full barrells last year. Very true, and from a dramatic standpoint, to go over the same territory of newbies-being-shocked-by-House would not have worked so well. There were complaints here aplenty that the new kids were copies of the old, so to have them follow the same trajectory with House would have been even worse. Also, one of the few slim points for keeping the old team around was that they could be seen putting the new ones wise.

TKT, on the other hand, are behaving exactly the same while having none of those reasons. No matter what House does, they just ignore him (except for very few arguments with Taub and Thirteen that had to do with their "sensitive subjects" and were hugely relevant to the episode). They are not surprised nor outraged, which leads me to think that they had been watching the earlier seasons. And they got the House for Dummies book. It's not good for the show to go through exactly the same 'getting to know you' arc that CCF did. On the other hand, it's not good for the show for the new team to have even more cynical and uncaring lack of reactions to House than CCF. If House had looked into Cameron's bank account in season 1, she would have been outraged and in season 4 she would have told him to stop being childish and mind his own business. If he had checked out Chase's bank account and found his wife had a secret one, Chase would have told him something about keeping his own boundaries and don't bother him unless it's about medicine. Neither would have just rolled their eyes or tried to defend their wife as Thirteen and Taub respectively did. The excuse for hiring a new team was to avoid the show getting stale but more than a year later when the show should have figured out how to write them, the reactions of the original ducklings remain more interesting then those of the new hires.

I curse ships. Why do people have to have ships? Because it's fun.

If House had looked into Cameron's bank account in season 1, she would have been outraged and in season 4 she would have told him to stop being childish and mind his own business. If he had checked out Chase's bank account and found his wife had a secret one, Chase would have told him something about keeping his own boundaries and don't bother him unless it's about medicine. Actually, House looked into Cameron's medical file in season two to see if she'd had a baby and not for any medical reason, and Cameron, while indignant, did nothing--no reaming out, no setting of boundaries and certainly no lack of crush. When Chase found out House had known about his dad's cancer right from the get go, he was hurt, but he did nothing. He also did nothing about the punch. Foreman did nothing about House digging into his past, even though his juvie record should have been kept private. And neither Cameron nor Chase were the least bit surprised House dug into them. House has always dug into his employees' pasts and CC&F didn't find any way to stop him. Foreman had his intro to this right in the pilot. TT&K have no illusions that House is gruff but a sweetie because of the way they were hired, and that avoids any retread of Cameron's trajectory and lets the story move forward. But CC&F were no better at making House mind while they worked for him. Now, they should be.

I've talked about some of this on the Bitterness thread already but to answer some specifics: Season 1 House wondered about Cameron's reaction to babies in Maternity. He looked at her file in Fidelity and she told him that he was like an 8 year old with a puzzle to adult for him to solve and refused to tell him more at the time. Later they had more personal moment between the two of them and he was being nice to her, she told him about her husband dying. When Chase found out House had known his father was dying, he told House he was angry at him but what could he do at that point? It's not a situation that was going to happen again. Likewise, when a detoxing House punched him in FJ, he couldn't do anything about House but he did use it as the impetus to give up on House and grow up himself. Foreman's juvenile record was pre-hiring investigation. Neither time did House look into their financial or other personal affairs just for the heck of it, or worse hire someone else to. I can understand why it didn't bother Kutner since his is a matter of public record but Thirteen's and Taub's non-reaction to the PI investigating them was not only unrealistic, it was boring. I curse ships. Why do people have to have ships? Because when they like character, they want them to be happy and romance is one way of having them be happy, a very powerful on for the human race. When you don't like a character, you either don't care about what happens to them (Foreman and Taub for many people) or tend to want bad things for them (e.g. the "I wish Thirteen would just die already" posts). Shipping wars on other shows aren't as bad as this one. I think it's so nasty on House because the writers ship House with everyone, Wilson, Cuddy, Cameron, Stacy and any stray female who wanders on to the set.

I curse ships. Why do people have to have ships? Because when they like character, they want them to be happy and romance is one way of having them be happy, a very powerful on for the human race. When you don't like a character, you either don't care about what happens to them (Foreman and Taub for many people) or tend to want bad things for them (e.g. the "I wish Thirteen would just die already" posts). Shipping wars on other shows aren't as bad as this one. I think it's so nasty on House because the writers ship House with everyone, Wilson, Cuddy, Cameron, Stacy and any stray female who wanders on to the set. I like a lot of the characters but I have no desire for them to hook up, and certainly not for that to become the driving force of the plot. When I started reading the House forums, all the ships puzzled me. I mean, it's one thing to muse that two characters have chemistry and it'd be fun to see them get romantic, but these forums distorted the whole view of the show for the participants - the ship was the only thing they cared about, and good plots, character development, continuity, the quality of the whole show, could go by the boards if only they got a scene with their preferred pair. If they didn't get that scene, the show "sucked." I'm not a big TV watcher; prior to House, I mostly watched PBS Mystery! and in days of old, Masterpiece Theatre (where I found out about HL). This is weird to me. I'm mostly bothered because it does seem to me that TPTB take some of this to heart. IMO, they play up to it - to the detriment of the show and the people who watch the whole thing. The other downside of ships is that they cut off options for the show. Obviously, this is just my opinion and most people here won't agree. But if you like the show at all, I think the best thing is to hope for solid writing and plotting, period, to ensure that it stays on.

I've talked about some of this on the Bitterness thread already but to answer some specifics: I won't reply on the Bitterness thread, since that wouldn't be appropriate, but I will here. Season 1 House wondered about Cameron's reaction to babies in Maternity. He looked at her file in Fidelity and she told him that he was like an 8 year old with a puzzle to adult for him to solve and refused to tell him more at the time. And that type of reaction is what he got from the newbies. None of them encouraged him and I would say Taub gave him a sterner "back off" than we've ever seen CC or F do when he told him to stay out of his personal life. He even got House to admit he owed him an apology. House was curious about Cameron and he's curious about his new team. He's just not dealing with one of them having a crush on him. When Chase found out House had known his father was dying, he told House he was angry at him but what could he do at that point? It's not a situation that was going to happen again. Likewise, when a detoxing House punched him in FJ, he couldn't do anything about House but he did use it as the impetus to give up on House and grow up himself. What can any of them do? Chase could certainly have pursued the punching incident--he chose not to because he still wanted to work with House. So he handled it himself and of course that helped him work past some issues. That's what the new team are doing and I expect it will help them work past some issues, too. Foreman's juvenile record was pre-hiring investigation. But Foreman found out about it in the show once he'd been hired--and he did not get indignant, back House off or in any other way than ignoring him handle the situation. And neither Chase nor Cameron blinked an eye at what House did. Neither time did House look into their financial or other personal affairs just for the heck of it, or worse hire someone else to. Why was it worse to hire the detective than to break into files himself by bribing janitors? It's all crossing the same line. House was curious in each case, which is what he is with his new team. He wants to know all about them so he knows what's driving them--it's as much or a little, depending on your viewpoint--as just for the heck of it as with the new team. He poked into his old team's personal life with the same abandon he does the new, and it wasn't because he was selflessly trying to better their lives. He was curious, trying to solve puzzles. He does it when something triggers his interest and he does it proactively if he's bored or needs distractions. It's not new behaviour and CC&F didn't handle it any differently than KTT.

But if you like the show at all, I think the best thing is to hope for solid writing and plotting, period, to ensure that it stays on. I'm with you here peggy06 completely. My ship is pretty much House/Ethical Dilemmas & Medical Mysteries though I do enjoy the character development as well. I think the House/Cuddy situation is one that has been brewing for a long time and reflects the characters' confusion with their professional conflicts and personal attraction. It adds an interesting dimension that I'm enjoying, but showcasing a different character each week wouldn't be my choice of how to present the show. But then it's not my show so I'm happy to see what they come up with. Anything they do will be a mistake or a misstep for some fans so they are in a no-win situation. Best is to go for the best writing and focus on House. That's what got them to the party in th first place. I like to see them experiment with the formula and the characters. I don't think they've so much lost the serious and dignified Dr. House of S1 as much as let us get a little closer to him and peek behind the mask (by now they've pretty much thrown the mask away) and we see that some of that was House being a good actor (like when he tells the guy in Frozen that he won't let anything bad happen, he's utterly convincing, but then he turns to Foreman and says, that was easy). S1 House was written pretty much on the nose, but they've peeled back some layers of the onion and if you like that metaphor, you'll realize you can't put those layers back on: House turns out to be much more complicated. He can turn on a dime for some real 13-year old jerkiness to dead serious: in fact, I look at that childishness as the part of himself he clings to because he feels his childish self is somehow uncorrupted and that brutal honesty is part of how he does his job. It's part of HL's genius that he does that in so uncompromising a way: he just doesn't ameliorate the character of House at all. He's absolutely a jerk and he's absolutely a man who saves lives and he's thoughtful and introspective and cruel and demeaning: he's got a thousand shades of grey and he would never be allowed to function this way in real life, but he's a fascinating character to see develop and to see how the others around him get stronger or weaker as they react to him. He doesn't help all his fellows, but with the ones he does help through his socratic teaching, he really changes their lives (Chase). I think of HL's saying that he's not an angel but he's on the side of the angels. As S5 progresses, we see him realizing that people care about him, but that they are also proceeding with their own lives, with or without him, and he's not been dealing with it well. One baby step forward and two giant strides backward, but still, he's compelling.

Neither time did House look into their financial or other personal affairs just for the heck of it, or worse hire someone else to. Why was it worse to hire the detective than to break into files himself by bribing janitors? It's all crossing the same line. House was curious in each case, which is what he is with his new team. He wants to know all about them so he knows what's driving them--it's as much or a little, depending on your viewpoint--as just for the heck of it as with the new team. He poked into his old team's personal life with the same abandon he does the new, and it wasn't because he was selflessly trying to better their lives. He was curious, trying to solve puzzles. He does it when something triggers his interest and he does it proactively if he's bored or needs distractions. It's not new behaviour and CC&F didn't handle it any differently than KTT. I didn't write the above, but it seems worse to me because another person also became privy to the private information. And, not that they would know, but House discussed some of it with the PI. If it's none of House's business, it's even less the PI's business. It's wrong, it's illegal, unjustifiable, and does not become a character who, for all DS's pro-*test*-('")ations, started out as an unconventional hero and is at the very least the protagonist of the show. Also, I agree with Ariadne that it wasn't just wanting to know what made his old team tick. He always had some specific reason, not just wanting to get something to hold over people, as he expressed it to the PI. How obnoxious is that? The show had him investigating his team and his friends for one reason only, to justify the PI character who was about to debut a new series. A device, no more, and one that contributed to cheapening the character House.

I don't think that having a ship necessarily means bad writing or story telling; sometimes it can tell you even more about the character (e.g. Luka on ER and his three relationships with Carol, Abby and Sam). Unfortunately, this show doesn't do relationships well. Unfortunate because they ship House with so many characters and none of it is clear what's going on. Even the Huddy kiss in Joy. I've heard so many explanations of what was going on there. Some see it as House finally showing his feelings for Cuddy, some see it as anger and disappointment and not finding what you were looking for, I've seen some posts (no, not from Hamerons) that say Cuddy was so sad, she would have kissed anyone who showed her some comfort. It's not supposed to be this ambiguous. And then there is the continuing Hilson subtext and Chase accusing Cameron of having slept with House in NMMNG. Relationships are supposed to tell us things about the characters, not make things even more confusing. (Personally, I really liked Wilson/Amber but i don't care about ships on House right now, I'm getting my "two damaged adults reaching for each other" needs met from Hunt/Yang on GA. Lousy medicine, OTT characters but good gutfelt emotions.) Why was it worse to hire the detective than to break into files himself by bribing janitors? When House broke into Stacy's therapist's files, he was looking for the answer to a specific question. He didn't just hire a detective to dig up whatever dirt he could find for later use like a sleazy politician or a mob boss. It's not new behaviour and CC&F didn't handle it any differently than KTT. Then what's the point of hiring a new team if they're going to do the same thing the old one did? For Thirteen's Huntingdon's storyline? The irony is that while Chase and Cameron's interactions with House have changed from what they were in the first seasons, the new team took over their old reactions. Same thing but with different actors. The real change is in reactions to House are with Chase and Cameron.

Obviously, this is just my opinion and most people here won't agree. But if you like the show at all, I think the best thing is to hope for solid writing and plotting, period, to ensure that it stays on. I definitely don't agree. I love the show. I've loved it since I saw the pilot, before it even aired. I love it now that we're getting different angles on the characters. I love it when House is a bastard and I love it when he shows his human side. I'd say it has every bit of the "sold writing and plotting, period" that it always has had, but it's looking at different angles now. Who wants to see the same sides of House we've seen in the first season? I'd say it has every bit of the "sold writing and plotting, period" that it always has had, but it's looking at different angles now. Who wants to see the same sides of House we've seen in the first season? "House" was far from perfect in the first season (I still think "Poison" is the worst episode they've had, and Vogler was a hack job of an arc.) I'm tired of the implication that if I continue to like the show now that I'm an idiot for failing to understand had bad it's gotten. Is it realistic? No. It never has been. Is the medicine exactly what you'd see in hospitals today? No. Never has been. One thing I liked about the boston.com take on "House" that was linked over on the media thread was that it acknowledged all of its issues, yet also argued that House occupies its own stylized world, with its own set of rules: The show needs to be viewed as a comic psychodrama in which all the medical cases reflect aspects of the doctors, and all the doctors reflect aspects of House, and House reflects the naked id. It’s a crazy “House” of mirrors. The crowded cast, the overheated action, and all the absurd twists and turns are the show’s unique stylization. “House” may be mainstream TV’s boldest-ever psychological farce. It's a different take that even allows me to buy into Darian Serafian's crazy directorial style -- that he's intentionally giving us an atypical view of the world, because this is not the world as it is, but rather the world that House occupies. And this atypical Housian view isn't something new this season or last season or the third season -- whichever season people want to pick that they've been shouting about jumping the shark. House getting away with stealing Vicodin? It's in the pilot. A guy who doesn't realize he's orange? That's pretty unrealistic and is in the pilot. The rabies symptoms were unrealistic. Vogler was unrealistic. Blackmailing your boss with a date is unrealistic. So yeah, I don't expect House and House's world to conform to my world. I never have. What I want is to be entertained, to be intrigued by this character who is consistently confounding every expectation I have of him. To have people who bounce off of him and are forced to reconsider their world -- from Cuddy to Chase to Cameron to Foreman to the newbies. That hasn't changed. And before you say it again. No. I don't think we're seeing the same reactions nor are Taub, Kutner and Thirteen the same characters. But that's an old argument that's not worth repeating again, and I won't. Then what's the point of hiring a new team if they're going to do the same thing the old one did? For Thirteen's Huntingdon's storyline? For God's sake, it's Huntington's, not Huntingdon's. For something that's as big a plot point as the disease is, people should learn how to spell it right, and I'm tired of seeing it consistently misspelled. It's like all the people who spell Cuddy's name "Cutty."

FYI Huntington's not Huntingdon's. :-)

I didn't write the above, but it seems worse to me because another person also became privy to the private information. And, not that they would know, but House discussed some of it with the PI. If it's none of House's business, it's even less the PI's business. He showed Wilson Stacy's file back in season two, and it was her private therapy thoughts. He talked about Foreman's juvie record to anyone in earshot. The PI was doing a job--he doesn't give a crap about what he's learning about anyone--and all he learned was Thirteen had a bad credit record and Taub's wife had her own bank account. Kutner's crawling record could have been found by anyone reading the GBOWR. I think House was much more invasive with Foreman and Cameron, though he was just as invasive with Thirteen's mother's death. Also, I agree with Ariadne that it wasn't just wanting to know what made his old team tick. He always had some specific reason, not just wanting to get something to hold over people, as he expressed it to the PI. I don't see the big difference here. He wanted to know about Foreman, so he dug around in his past by calling his old teachers until he found something and he was interested by it. How is that different from what he did with KTT? Because he did it before he made the final hiring decision? He's still digging around just to see what he could find, wanting to know more about what makes Foreman tick. He found out about Chase's dad just because he was curious his dad was visiting and Chase and his dad were not close. Not because he had some covered over desire to help Chase. He was just curious and wanted to solve the puzzle. In Cameron's case, her behaviour tipped him off there was something to know, so he invasively found out. In the end, House does usually end up having more feelings about his relationships than he likes to admit and he is capable of trying to offer some semblance of help, not usually recognised by the recipient as such, but his motivation in being nosy is because he is nosy. People are puzzles and he likes to solve them.

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