Well said, jair. As House told Amber when he fired her, if you can't fail, you can't work for me. Make no mistake, he loves to be right, but he knows he's not always, and he knows from his dad that punishing failure doesn't lead to good results. Accepting failed theories as opportunities to learn something new and using that information to quickly move on to the next idea is how he works.
Ariadne- 10-18-2008
House's reasons for getting rid of Amber never made sense to me. Amber was right, not wrong about the case (Thirteen was the one who was wrong as well as stupidly endangering the children on the ward). Amber was also the one who demonstrated that she could learn from her mistakes and adapt to the situation. House assumed that Thirteen could but unlike Amber, we didn't see her doing it. We also saw Amber genuinely caring about patients more than Thirteen. That whole speech was like something Through the Looking Glass. Every reason House gave for firing Amber applied more to Thirteen than it did to her including being a bitch. Everything that House wanted to train his team to be was there in prototype in Amber.
I'm not denying that both Cameron and Chase worked through their issues during their time with House but I don't think that John House's training methods for toughening up sensitive young people was to their best advantage. In terms of learning the medicine, Cameron and Chase learned a lot from House. In terms of learning to be the best doctor they could be, I think they would have done better with someone like Wilson because learning from House seemed to cause something in them to wither and die, as something in House himself seemed to have died because John's training methods. IMO Cameron learned to deal with her grief issues in spite of House's teaching methods, not because of them.
The point is that she always had harder edges to her personality as well as the softer.
Are you saying the guy wasn't a jerk? Wanting your wife to die rather than to know she cheated on you is pretty high on the jerk scale in my book. All Cameron did was say "yes" and leave the room to cry in private. What is hard edged about that? I think showing a harder edge would have been going ballistic on him given how much she was still mourning her husband (I can see Thirteen doing that and House himself, if he cared, would have been scathing).
There must be a better thread to discussion the efficaciousness of House's teaching style.
jair- 10-18-2008
House's reasons for getting rid of Amber never made sense to me. Amber was right, not wrong about the case (Thirteen was the one who was wrong as well as stupidly endangering the children on the ward). Amber was also the one who demonstrated that she could learn from her mistakes and adapt to the situation.
The fact that they were all right and all wrong was part of the plot of Games. Amber, however, was the one who could not let go of her drug theory to embrace others, because she thought that was "failing," while 13 did let go of her non-drug theory to say that drugs fit best in the end. I didn't have a problem following House's reasoning.
I'm not denying that both Cameron and Chase worked through their issues during their time with House but I don't think that John House's training methods for toughening up sensitive young people was to their best advantage. In terms of learning the medicine, Cameron and Chase learned a lot from House. In terms of learning to be the best doctor they could be, I think they would have done better with someone like Wilson because learning from House seemed to cause something in them to wither and die,
Neither Cameron nor Chase got John House's methods; they got Greg House's methods, which are quite different. To me, far from withering and dying, Cameron and Chase are now much more confident in who they are and what they have to offer. Chase's assertiveness and willingness to stand his ground is wonderful to see and very different from season one Chase, who still had his slacker "out for me" persona in place. And as discussed, I don't regard it as withering and dying that Cameron has finally left juniour high school, both in terms of her crush and in terms of her black and white morality. She's a much more enjoyable character now, to my eyes. And I don't think we've ever seen Wilson have a more charitable reaction to Cameron's issues or Chase's than House. He actually had the more negative reaction. Just because he's got better social skills doesn't mean he'd be the better teacher.
The point is that she always had harder edges to her personality as well as the softer.
Are you saying the guy wasn't a jerk? Wanting your wife to die rather than to know she cheated on you is pretty high on the jerk scale in my book. All Cameron did was say "yes" and leave the room to cry in private.
I'm saying that Cameron did not have the right to judge the husband so harshly and her "yes" was actually a huge thing to say and doesn't fall in the realm of cute and cuddly. But this really is for another thread.
shemett- 10-18-2008
Wilson was married during med school, and met House after it. We were right: neither of the timelines are right! Assuming Wilson is 39, and he finished med school at 25ish, then they've known each other around 14 years. Give or take, depending on how much of genius Wilson was.
House's father not being his biological father was actually a pretty cool twist. And House's, "Wilson....my dad's dead" at the end was nice.
This episode was perfect. I loved the Kutner stuff, and Chase and Cameron showed up. And Chase was scruffy.
I am immensely satisfied.
Doesn't exist canon that Wilson is 39 years old. That tptb were showed the birthdate of Foreman and House like of the actors, that doesn't mean for Wilson.
And this 40 years keeping secret: Hosue was 12 years old, when he find out that his father isn't his bilogical.
so, that means House in present days is 52 years old.
Remember Hector time 17 years, after 1 is 18. When Wilson married for second time he was in Boston, where he is met with Bony.
That I want to say is Wilson and House met again after 2 eyars appart, after the conference everybody of them take his way.
What makes Wilson to come back in Jersey, how they met for the second time that is question of the future.
By me Wilson now is 45 years old, how old is Cuddy, if we believe of season 2.
:)
Ariadne- 10-18-2008
Going by the ID bracelet in No Reason, House is HL's age, 49. I'd guess the "forty year old secret" was the promo guy rounding.
Amber, however, was the one who could not let go of her drug theory to embrace others
Thus making her like House himself who numerous times won't let go of a theory and was proved to be right in the end as Amber was. Thirteen needed to let go of her theory because she was wrong but why should Amber let go when she was right? A lot of good it did Cameron in Act Your Age. Why wouldn't House hire someone who works the way he does?
season one Chase, who still had his slacker "out for me" persona in place.
Do you think that was the real Chase, the slacker? I thought it was a put-on self-protection to appear that way. Maybe he would have shed it sooner under other circumstances, we don't know.
Chase and Cameron changed from their season 1 versions; everyone changed over three years, even House himself. Look at the difference between House in the pilot and House in Human Error or Cuddy season 1 vs season 3. We don't know what Chase and Cameron would been like under 3 years of Wilson's teaching so we can't really resolve this. But given Wilson's reactions in Sleeping Dogs Lie as well as the fact that he actually read Cameron's article, it's pretty fair to say that the Cameron/Foreman fight wouldn't have happened under Wilson. Wilson was also more charitable to Cameron than House was in Acceptance (by working through the problem with her when House refused to), Spin (teaching her why she shouldn't make the phone call) and Hunting (by caring about how she was doing). I still think that Cameron wouldn't have tried the methsex in Hunting if her co-workers had cared about her (only Chase did) but we'll never know.
There probably are some people who think it would be better to have a dead wife than to know that the live one cheated on you but I'm pretty sure most people in America in the year 2004 would think the guy is a jerk for hoping that his wife would die. And that's even without being in Cameron's situation of mourning the death of the love of her live. Cameron may well have had hard edges in season 1 but this isn't an example of it.
No one really has the right to judge another person although we all do. But if most people would have felt the same as Cameron did, then by definition it's not harsh under current norms. If Cameron were perfect she would have said nothing but why should she have to be perfect when no one else on the show is?
We should move this to another thread.
travlncarrie- 10-20-2008
Another thought, something that's been bugging me...normally, I think House usually only takes one vicodin, doesn't he? Except for House's Head where he took way too many. But in the past, we usually see him just tossing one pill back (well, the ones we can see, anyway). And now he's taking two?
NightOwl- 10-20-2008
He has definitely taken two at a time before.
arizonamyrie- 10-20-2008
I agree with NightOwl - he's definitely taken more than one at a time, if not tossed back most the bottle ("Merry Little Christmas") of one thing or another. Look back already as S1 with "Detox." And already in the pilot episode, he was shown taking the drug when about to confront something he might not be comfortable with (clinic duty, Cuddy, etc...) rather than just taking it for pain. It could have been for pain, but the visual evidence and the canon of the show suggest otherwise.
As it relates to this episode, I can see where only one Vicodin would be enough to keep him relatively pain-free but not enough to actually keep the pain away. Of course, TPTB haven't really shown the exact amount that he's taking now, but I'd be willing to bet that with Wilson having been gone it was either more (as in he got 13 or some to write the script) or less (as in Cuddy took over writing the script). Either way, Wilson suddenly only giving him one was, imho, kinda stupid unless he was told ahead of time what the dosing that House was taking from that bottle was (because, we all know that House would take more than prescribed). Too little, he faces detox, which we all know how bad that is. Also, having been drugged by Cuddy, that fall would have hurt, Vicodin or not. He needed the pain med then and to me, Wilson was ignorant of those things at that moment.
Namaste- 10-20-2008
I'm of the opinion that when House dry swallows, it's one Vicodin. When he downs it with water, it's two (or more).
shemett- 10-20-2008
Amber's bracelet was DOB:10 september 1978 or79, the DOB of the actress is completely different. Also, the bracelet of Mirror guy is the same like of Amber. Frank Whally isn't 30 eyars old;)
MissViolet- 10-20-2008
But when my friend's abusive father died, he went the funeral, for his mother's sake, but afterwards, he was clearly happy the guy was dead, and I daresay his life improved after that. And even though I barely knew his father, I was also glad he was dead. He was much worse than John House and simply being dead doesn't mean the slate is wiped clean.
Closure doesn't mean that any slate is wiped clean. It means coming to an understanding that a relationship has ended in a very definitive way and therefore old emotional reactions - whether destructive or protective - to that relationship have no literal meaning in your life anymore. It is time to move on from them, and him or her, and hopefully live a much improved life.
Blanche's actions, to me, were as if she wanted to force House to have some affection for his dead father or at least pretend he did. No doubt she'd be trying to do that since he was 12 years old, or even earlier. I won't be too hard on her as she was no doubt grief-stricken and that always makes people act strangely. But if House's eulogy was hurtful to her, I have to say she brought it about upon herself by forcing him to speak.
For my friend, his father dying was a kind of closure - a man he hated was gone forever so he'd never have to talk to him again. He was happy about that. He didn't speak to his family for 8 years because of his father, and only reconciled for the sake of his mother and his brothers and sisters - I guess he didn't want them to think he'd died. But people usually talk about closure in terms of 'forgiveness.' In other words, let's move on, the past is the past, let go of the hate, etc. I think for House, the closure was not that he discovered some long-lost affection for his father but more like his friend's reaction - he was glad never to have to speak to his father again. The real 'closure' was the DNA -*test*-('") that proved that his father wasn't his biological father, but, as much as he hated him, House did admit at the end of the episode that he was his father even if they were not related by blood (he said something along the lines of "My dad's dead," to Wilson, who replied, "I'm sorry.").
Boffle- 10-20-2008
Why wouldn't House hire someone who works the way he does?
I think they answered that with Ridiculously Old Fraud. You need someone who thinks differently to add something to the team and so that they can learn something. House isn't the right teacher for everyone and he and ROF were already on the same page, nothing to learn there. But Taub, for example, was so far from getting what was going on, there's lots of room for him to grow and things that he can learn from House that will help him.
eta: Just rewatched, noticed this nice juxtaposition. When House and Wilson come into the funeral home and House is talking to his mom, in the background on the wall is a painting. When Wilson says she knows Greg better then he does, he steps out of the frame to reveal that the painting in the background is of a Madonna and child. I just love those touches.
Greg House- 10-21-2008
I'm not finding this episode's HD screencaps yet.Can anyone help me?
Greg House- 10-26-2008
Screencaps anyone???
Poeia- 10-26-2008
I put a liink to a couple of sites that do screencaps in the I'm Looking for a Distraction: Links for House thread. House MD Screencaps already has some up.
(If anyone knows other good sites for screencaps, please add them)
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