5.01 - Dying Changes Everything

I don't think he was implying that he never liked House or simply hung out with him out of pity; I think he was trying to say that their relationship is so codependent and so needy and so enabling that it barely, in Wilson's grief-clouded retrospect, qualifies as "friendship". I interpreted it as Wilson questioning the nature of the relationship, not as him trying to further insult House by saying "I never actually liked you." You may be right, but unfortunately, House has no way of knowing that this is a meta conversation. All he knows is what Wilson actually said, which sounds like a slap in the face.. I'd argue that it's pretty clear the two men do like each other, but in the most recent seasons, the relationship has, in my opinion, looked more like a chore or a "moral obligation" than an easy, comfortable friendship. You're right -- it's clear they do like each other. Most of the time. And if it's a chore, is it one because House is such a handful, or because Wilson sees it as one? We know he has a tendency to put others needs ahead of his own. He's essentially doing to House here what he's done in his marriages... "protecting" or "enabling" House and thereby sublimating his own needs until he gets to the point that he resents it. With his wives, it led to divorce. With House, he's going to move away. Same difference. This is just exactly what Amber wouldn't let him do to her (and good for her)... so now he's doing it to House instead.

One thing puzzles me: why Cuddy says it was the middle of the night. House left work around 5:30, right? And he comes to in the strip joint at 8:30 or so? Anyway, it's not the middle of the night when he calls, so really not all that unreasonable. If House had gotten on the bus alone and not called Wilson and been killed, Wilson would have felt guilty and thought that House should have called him..... So glad to hear someone else said this. time thing has been bugging me for a while. It's been implied since the end of Season 4 I think. Doesn't House say something like '...young do gooders shouldn't be dragged out of their apartment in the middle of the night....' when talking to RIP Amber on the bus? Which for some reason reminds me of something else from the show I wanted to comment on: After the "counseling session," when Wilson tossed out his parting line about no one at the hospital liking Amber, he overlooked one person who did like Amber: House. Now, either he didn't remember that House had liked her (or confused his "cutthroad bitch" nickname with genuine dislike) or he didn't know. On the other hand, we as audience members, often know a lot about House that Wilson doesn't seem to know. YES! YES! YES!

Not much to add, but I do like the notion of Hugh winning a gold for rhythmic gymnastics. Hell, he probably could! Teared up at the ending and thought wow: This implies that Wilson never actually liked House, that he just let him think he did out of kindness and now that has run out. It was quite a twist that he walked out on House not because of Amber but because of him. "You should have been on that bus alone." How does he say that to another human being? I don't hate Wilson, but man, he can be much harsher than House. And he knows how vulnerable House is. HL saying nothing and standing stock still was so powerful. RSL great as well. Agree on the rest of the cast: too much 13, Cuddy fine (I thought her "go to hell" to Wilson was appropriate since he had just asked her to be on his side against House: she's trying to get them to talk to each other, not gang up on House.) Chase good with good lines, Cameron decent, others ok. Mostly though, not enough House, though I hope Hugh got some well-deserved rest. I agree with you Boffle and am glad I am not the only one who felt that Wilson's parting words were harsh.

You may be right, but unfortunately, House has no way of knowing that this is a meta conversation. All he knows is what Wilson actually said, which sounds like a slap in the face.. What? You mean House doesn't read these forums? Aw, man... I joined up for no reason! You make a good point, though. No matter how it's interpreted, or what Wilson's true meaning behind the words was, it's impossible for House not to take his words as a slap in the face. But I would hope, for his own sake, that House would take it the same way I do, which is that Wilson was trying to comment that the relationship isn't really working. I don't think he was accusing House of being the cause for the relationship failing; I think he believes they're equally responsible. If that's the case, it's still a slap in the face, but at least it's not telling House "I don't like you and I never have." You're right -- it's clear they do like each other. Most of the time. And if it's a chore, is it one because House is such a handful, or because Wilson sees it as one? I think this is where is comes down to opinion and interpretation, really. Someone could make a case either way. In my opinion, they're both to blame. House was too needy and too much of a "handful" at times, and Wilson does enable him and fuss over him too much. I happen to believe that both guys are justified in their feelings -- Wilson in his desperation to break the cycle, and House in his grief at Wilson walking away. I don't think either one is handling this situation ideally, but I can understand the motivations behind both their actions.

I happen to believe that both guys are justified in their feelings -- Wilson in his desperation to break the cycle, and House in his grief at Wilson walking away. I don't think either one is handling this situation ideally, but I can understand the motivations behind both their actions. That is a good point Loki. Welcome to the forum!

ETA: Yes, House liked her, Taub thought she was hot and Kutner tried to date her. So Wilson was at his most bitter there. With House, he wasn't bitter, just unleashing all that repression in one well-aimed dart. When I finished watching the episode, I had a lot of sympathy for both characters. Now, I'm feeling more annoyed with Wilson. Well-aimed dart, indeed. Right at the heart. He's clearly spent this two months thinking about things, but it seems as if he's also spent it stewing. In a pressure cooker. In the course of this episode, he's accused House of having no feelings, didn't really acknowledge House's willingness to do whatever was necessary to save Amber,* passive-aggressively avoided telling House (supposedly his best friend) that he was resigning and moving away until he was packing up his office(!), and once he finally does talk to House, he tells him "You spread misery because you can't feel anything else. You manipulate people because you can't handle any kind of real relationship." (Let's not even get into how judgmental that is -- it's also hurtful, and intentionally so.) And that they've never been friends... Then he walks away without providing any opportunity for his now-stunned former "best" friend to do anything but stand there with his mouth open. Maybe he was right -- maybe they never were friends. Or, as the old line goes, with friends like this, who needs enemies? Don't get me wrong. Sometimes I just adore Wilson. And House is a pain in the ass a lot of the time. I'm not all "poor House/evil Wilson." But it's taken two to create this screwed-up friendship, and Wilson is just as responsible for the problems as House is... and not just because he was "enabling" House. They've both contributed to the good and the bad of their relationship. Essentially, they're both dysfunctional human beings, responding to a painful situation in dysfunctional ways. On the stage, this would be a classic Greek (or Shakespearean) tragedy, with both characters' Achilles heels raining down destruction on them both. Fortunately, it's not on the stage. It's television. But I love the fact that television can lead to conversations like this. ___________________________ * It's late and maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. Can anyone tell me how (if) Wilson responded to House's comment about cracking his head open to save Amber? Or was Wilson so focused on the idea that his leaving had nothing to do with Amber and everything to do with House that he didn't think it deserved a response? Or... did he not recognize House's willingness to sacrifice himself to save the person Wilson loved?

But it's taken two to create this screwed-up friendship, and Wilson is just as responsible for the problems as House is... and not just because he was "enabling" House. They've both contributed to the good and the bad of their relationship. In my personal opinion, which is influenced some by RL events, people I've been close to, etc... If a person has a weakness (aka addiction, etc) and someone else enables them to behave a certain way for a long time, allows them to get used to it, comfortable with it, allows them to think this is how it's *supposed* to be, how it's *always* going to be -- how can they blame that person for believing it? How can they place the responsibility on their shoulders when for so long, they've silently encouraged this behavior with their own? It's like when something bothers you, but you don't tell the person it bothers you -- so they keep doing it, and it keeps bothering you, and building up, and eventually one day it all just explodes!!! I think that's sort of what Wilson did, if that makes sense to anyone but me.

If a person has a weakness (aka addiction, etc) and someone else enables them to behave a certain way for a long time, allows them to get used to it, comfortable with it, allows them to think this is how it's *supposed* to be, how it's *always* going to be -- how can they blame that person for believing it? How can they place the responsibility on their shoulders when for so long, they've silently encouraged this behavior with their own? It's like when something bothers you, but you don't tell the person it bothers you -- so they keep doing it, and it keeps bothering you, and building up, and eventually one day it all just explodes!!! I think that's sort of what Wilson did, if that makes sense to anyone but me. It's not just "sort of what Wilson did" -- it's exactly what Wilson did.

By Meaning, Wilson was desperate to save House from himself. He'd been trying since Detox, through the Stacy arc and beyond. What he did was wrong but he did it with House's best interests in mind. Other than WH, I don't recall House ever sacrificing himself for Wilson Son of a Coma Guy- I am sure some people will disagree but House telling Wilson he didn't want him involved in what was clearly an illegal move was pretty self sacrificing. She's the tragic victim, the feminist warrior, the bitchy co-worker, the stern lecturer, all while undoubtedly "the one who cares." She was fucking Sybil in this episode This just made me laugh- Thank you I liked this episode. I think there is a lot of hurt there a lot of anger there and a lot that can be looked at and explored in the upcoming season. I think three pages back Poeia commented on the whole Cameron story-line line thing better than I could so let me just say ditto to those comments. I can't wait to see where this will all go. Edited by Fid to add some quote boxes. Edited to thank fid for the quote boxes, the down side of posting on five or six pages, you can't cut and paste everything you want :O

In other words, he was friends with House only out of pity... the one thing House has fought desperately against allowing anyone to feel for him. And now, he finds House so completely pathetic he doesn't even have pity left. I disagree about Wilson's meaning behind that line. I don't think he was implying that he never liked House or simply hung out with him out of pity; I think he was trying to say that their relationship is so codependent and so needy and so enabling that it barely, in Wilson's grief-clouded retrospect, qualifies as "friendship". I interpreted it as Wilson questioning the nature of the relationship, not as him trying to further insult House by saying "I never actually liked you." I'd argue that it's pretty clear the two men do like each other, but in the most recent seasons, the relationship has, in my opinion, looked more like a chore or a "moral obligation" than an easy, comfortable friendship. ETA: I totally agree with everything Mer Duff said. I think Wilson was experiencing a new way of viewing his life and including his friendship, as he got involved with Amber. That relationship helped him see some of the problems in his friendship with House. On the other hand, I don't think his comments to House at the end of the show were made with utter equanimity and calmness - all his emotions spilled out there (having been repressed) and once he got going with explaining his point of view (the codependency, the ennnabling), I think he just stepped over the line of "truth" with the comment about wondering whether there was ever a friendship - it was meant to be hurtful, and wasn't necessarily the truth. He isn't remembering, like we are, the times when House did indeed help him, or times when they shared a good laugh, and time together. I just want to add that while there's the "best" way to respond to others, people who are hurt or afraid or whatever act in all kinds of bad hurtful ways. I LOVE that this show is delving into the friendship - that it's being shaken up, the workings of it are becoming exposed to both of them - now they both need to learn how much they care for each other. Not sure if it would be through actions (since that hasn't worked well up to this point), but perhaps through more face to face conversation. Sometimes a friendship has to go through some hurting times, in order to survive. Or to be ended.

From the Pilot: REBECCA: He’s your friend, huh? WILSON: Yeah. REBECCA: Does he care about you? WILSON: I think so. REBECCA: You don’t know? WILSON: As Dr. House likes to say, “Everybody lies.” REBECCA: It’s not what people say, it’s what they do. WILSON: Yeah. He cares about me. It never occurred to me that Wilson was saying he had never cared about House. Looking back at their entire friendship through the prism of what had happened in the last few months, Wilson was questioning House's behavior toward him. Right now he's seeing House's "what they do" as evidence that House never really cared about him -- just used him (and fed his own tendency to be an enabler.) I think the reality is that House has to trust someone very much and consider that person to be a friend before he is willing use a person in that way because, even though it is selfish, it does leave him vulnerable. And, to House, being vulnerable might be the most scary thing of all. The very fact that Wilson and Cuddy are the only two people who can get him to change his behavior and to do things simply because they ask, is evidence to me that he considers them his friends.

Was it me or were there more 13 scene than House scenes? I thought the episode was boring. I loved the Chase scenes (he's so much better at being House-lite than Foreman!) the Wilson/Cameron scene and I loved the last scene, as heart breaking as it was. The rest? Meh. I actually liked how Taub didn't think Chase screwed up. Too bad they didn't listen to the only guy that actually has surgical training on the team.

It never occurred to me that Wilson was saying he had never cared about House. Looking back at their entire friendship through the prism of what had happened in the last few months, Wilson was questioning House's behavior toward him. Right now he's seeing House's "what they do" as evidence that House never really cared about him -- just used him (and fed his own tendency to be an enabler.) Poeia, thank you very much for giving me an entirely different perspective on that last scene. I like this explanation MUCH better than my interpretation. Yours makes more sense, not only in that scene, but in the context of the entire show. Me likey.

Yes, I'm already biased against Wilson as I've said before (and should we also tell people who dislike 13 and Cameron that they're just looking for excuses to dislike them? :wink: ) so it's not surprising that the ending of this episode failed to endear me to him at all. Wilson never seems to see or admit his own role in hurting House, so I do think it's terribly unfair of him to act as if House is a heavy anchor he's been heroically carrying around. I do agree that their relationship has been unhealthy for a long time, though. I cannot blame him for breaking off the friendship, since I also agree with Foreman that he should do whatever makes his life a little happier. But I can blame him for breaking it off with sentences like "you spread misery; I'm not sure we were ever friends." Ouch! Et tu, Wilson? I liked the other characters more than usual this time, with the exception of Thirteen. I wonder if giving her a little less screentime would make her less grating. I think everyone was expecting this episode to be mostly about House and Wilson, so the clash of expectations probably didn't help either. Chase seems more assertive than ever--good for him. It was curious that Foreman didn't try to wrest control in House's absence as he used to do. Cuddy did her best stuck between a rock and a hard place, since House and Wilson are both as difficult as the other. Cameron was even likeable, and this is the first time the mention of her husband wasn't jarring. I agree with other posters who have mentioned they felt a little spark in her scene with Wilson. Taub and Kutner were nothing special, but at least they weren't annoying. It's disappointing that the show once again completely bypassed House's injury and any effects from it in the new season but hey, what did I expect? :lol:

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