I'd wondered what would be the outcome of House's skull fracture - apparently it healed just fine. He mentions it, but I don't think otherwise there's any discussion, any fallout, any physical problems.
Wilson's comment about no one in the hospital even liking Amber - I remember the camera panning to House at that moment, and my interior thought was that Wilson was mostly right but I wondered about whether House actually had liked her (I think he did, sort of, in his own way) - I couldn't read his face at that moment - it almost seemed blank, but I wonder if "surprised" was what was going on. He chose not to say anything, of course, given that Wilson was walking out the door.
Bedawyn- 09-17-2008
I'm hoping the writers continue to remember that and that any reconciliation has as its basis Wilson coming to an understanding of how House is good for him.
This is what I'm afraid of. Neither of them has a chance of being happy until Wilson realizes that the relationship isn't as one-sided as he thinks, but I'm not sure I trust the writers to give us that. They've shown us in actions plenty of times that it isn't, but the text of the show, the actual dialogue, the critiques that the characters themselves give of their lives, tends to run the other direction. If "I love you" and "I'm sorry" aren't good enough, if all the little things like taking cases because Wilson wants him to don't get through to Wilson, if calling a friend for a ride when you're drunk and lonely is a bad thing, if almost dying really does change nothing, then I'm not sure what else House is supposed to do. If Wilson won't be satisfied with his friendship until House magically transforms himself into shiny happy people, then, yeah, they're both better off apart.
(Also, I'm loving the way the timeline of the bus accident is always getting reworked in whichever way makes House look worse. The events all took place over 4 hours time, three if we stop counting after the critical point of House calling Amber. House heads for a bar at the end of the workday, at the time known as "happy hour" specifically because that's what lots of people do, hasn't started drinking yet at that point, but somehow he's "getting drunk in the middle of the afternoon". He calls Amber probably around 8ish, and somehow that's dragging her out "in the middle of the night". Methinks these guys need to learn the concept of "evening".)
Do you suppose that Wilson was already going through some of this thought process before Amber's death? That part of his separation from House was not just because he was involved with Amber, but because he was purposely pulling himself away from House?
I find this very believable. He always struck me as just a little too gleeful at the end of "Don't Ever Change". And Amber herself points out that Wilson is perfectly capable of setting his own schedule, which says to me that Wilson was choosing not to spend his time with House.
Poeia- 09-17-2008
Yes, I'm already biased against Wilson as I've said before (and should we also tell people who dislike 13 and Cameron that they're just looking for excuses to dislike them? :wink: ) I was the one who said that and, yes, I am at the point with both Thirteen and Foreman where the very fact that they are breathing (and taking up space on my TV screen) annoys me. Although I don't particularly like Cameron (and, at times, have hated her), I've always found myself looking for scenes or episodes in which she doesn't annoy me.
If you want to dislike Wilson and his behavior, that is your prerogative. But, just as I do with Foreman, I think it's important to acknowledge that there probably wasn't anything he could have done in the episode that would have merited your approval.
It's disappointing that the show once again completely bypassed House's injury and any effects from it in the new season but hey, what did I expect? :lol:
The show explores what David Shore is interested in. It has become very obvious that he is not interested in the physical recovery process. If he were, we would have seen House learning to run in Season 3 without a thigh muscle.
aithlyn- 09-17-2008
I'd wondered what would be the outcome of House's skull fracture - apparently it healed just fine. He mentions it, but I don't think otherwise there's any discussion, any fallout, any physical problems.
Not that I expect this show to be accurate when it comes to medicine, but there's just no way there's no fallout, no problems generated from that skull fracture.
My SO had a motorcycle accident in April. He had an undiagnosed concussion. He has since seen a neurologist, who explained to him that basically his brain needs about a year to fully heal all the pathways. Imagine the busiest city near you and close the two major arteries into it, forcing everyone onto the side streets. That's the kind of traffic he's dealing with every time he tries to pay attention to a conversation. It is slowly improving.
If this show has even one foot in the reality of our world, they will show House with some kind of problem. There's just no way he's already full recovered.
Bedawyn- 09-17-2008
No matter how it's interpreted, or what Wilson's true meaning behind the words was, it's impossible for House not to take his words as a slap in the face.
Yep. At best, Wilson's confirming that none of House's attempts matter at all and that House has misinterpreted the health of the relationship all along. At worst, when combined with his explanation that he was just trying to be nice by hiding his real reason for leaving, he's implying that he was just trying to be nice all along. And I don't think he meant to imply that, but he also knows -- when he's thinking clearly -- that House will cast everything in the worst possible light, per DEC.
I'm starting to wonder, between this and the "moral obligation" comment, the child comments, Wilson's lack of response to the "I love you", etc., whether Wilson might not have convinced himself that he was just trying to be nice all along. I don't for a minute believe he was, but I can see him trying to delude himself as a misguided way to step back from the ledge he came close to with Tritter.
I also wondered for a moment if Wilson was thinking of the proxy!House comparison when he said that about no one liking Amber. I don't think he did, but if it crossed my mind, it crossed House, and well, worst possible light.
It was sort of implied in this ep -- at least, I think a lot of people are reading this into Wilson's ending speech -- that House has made a habit of going on drunken binges and calling Wilson up to use him as chauffeur. But last season, Wilson seemed surprised that House was out drinking without him. I'm inclined to think the middle-of-the-night phone calls were of some other sort.
Son of a Coma Guy- I am sure some people will disagree but House telling Wilson he didn't want him involved in what was clearly an illegal move was pretty self sacrificing.
I don't think I'd call it self-sacrificing, but it was definitely one of the clear signs that Wilson's been ignoring. But I also see very few of Wilson's actions as self-sacrificing. His refusal to -*test*-('")ify, yes, and his alibi arrangement in SoCG, but that's pretty much it. He wasn't being self-sacrificing in the Vogler arc or elsewhere in the Tritter arc, that's for sure. You can't sacrifice something unless you choose to do so; suffering because of Tritter's or Vogler's unethical and unanticipated behavior is sad and bad but it's not sacrifice.
Edited because I apparently can't type this morning
DOB1234- 09-17-2008
I haven't yet worked my way through the 8 pages (!) of comments on this episode, but I just have to ask one question - When did Olivia Wilde become the co-star of this show?
I've always tried to stay out of the shippiness discussions (arguments, knock-down dragouts), and always kind of liked Cameron and so stayed out of the Cam-hate fests, but this whole 13 bit is starting to annoy me. I swear, I think the mostly-male writing staff just goes bonkers over pretty girls and thinks the rest of us must be nutty over them too. Cripes, it seemed last night that OW had as many lines as Hugh.
I don't care that 13 is dying. No, wait, I do. The sooner the better. :evil:
Namaste- 09-17-2008
They've shown us in actions plenty of times that it isn't, but the text of the show, the actual dialogue, the critiques that the characters themselves give of their lives, tends to run the other direction.
But I do think that's essentially the male outlook. They don't talk about their feelings. That's where Cuddy made the mistake in her "couples counseling" in that she was trying to get two hard headed men to talk out their issues. As most of the people on this board are women (if we go by general Internet usage numbers), of course we'd think and expect them to say how they feel about each other. But men, generally, don't. Especially these two men. Other than a "so, we're good?" question on occasion, they don't confront those issues. That, of course, fed into House being blindsided. He thought they were at the "we're good?" point, when in fact they weren't.
sherlockjr- 09-17-2008
If you want to dislike Wilson and his behavior, that is your prerogative. But, just as I do with Foreman, I think it's important to acknowledge that there probably wasn't anything he could have done in the episode that would have merited your approval.
I don't think that's necessarily so. I went into -- and out of -- the episode very sympathetic to Wilson. But the more I thought about it, the more annoyed I got. I recognize that passive-aggressive people are coping the best they can, but in this particular case, he's coping badly. In that regard, House was absolutely right -- Wilson is being an idiot.
That said, I'm not running off to write dark_wilson stories. If he had had a bit more self-awareness and little less self-righteousness, I'm not sure I would have been nearly as irritated. On the other hand, irritated is not always a bad thing.
The PTB (and HL and RSL) have created two immensely complicated, seriously flawed, endlessly fascinating characters who play off each other in very interesting ways... leading to long, drawn out and possibly frustrating conversations like the one we're having.
I find human nature interesting. Analyzing the complexity and flaws of these characters and their motivations is one way for me to sort out some of the questions I have about life. If that sounds pretentious, perhaps it is. But none of us is going to experience everything. I believe we turn to drama, in part, to live vicariously, and in part to try to find meaning. Or because we're bored. Take your pick.
March301- 09-17-2008
Wilson's comment about no one in the hospital even liking Amber - I remember the camera panning to House at that moment, and my interior thought was that Wilson was mostly right but I wondered about whether House actually had liked her (I think he did, sort of, in his own way)
Me too. Or at least I think by the end of "Don't Ever Change" (that's the one where she gives her speech of wanting love and respect together, right?) he had a grudging respect of her. I also think the way his subconscious communicated with her during the finale indicates some sort of gentleness, acceptance. He's been known to brush off his hallucinations very often, or to mock them, be House. He was kinda nice to Amber there, it was Amber who was acting more House-like, providing the realistic side of House's brain who knew full well that things would be difficult. (I am confusing myself.)
Anyway, I do think at least he had some kind of respect for Amber, and looking at House's expression there I really expected him for one moment to chase Wilson down the hall and give some speech about how not everyone hated Amber.
Do you suppose that Wilson was already going through some of this thought process before Amber's death?
I hope so. As Wilson gave his speech last night I kept thinking if I had a friend like Wilson in a similar situation I'd be like, "Get out of there, buddy." Their friendship may play well on TV, but in RL their friendship is NOT A GOOD THING. I'm glad they are addressing it, as painful as it seems now.
Boffle- 09-17-2008
So here's something that I've been thinking about. Please pardon the psychobabble, if it turns out that's what it is. :-)
Why were these two ever friends (or if not friends, whatever they were). Consider the psychology of the individual. What House never got from his dad was acceptance, and even more, the acknowledgement that his way was right. It was the struggle of his youth, or at least that seems to me to be what we've been told. Wilson is like his dad in that way: he always says House is lucky when he's right, never giving him credit for his genius. By withholding that approval, acceptance, and acknowledgement (which House does get from Cuddy), Wilson becomes the dad figure that House can never please.
For Wilson, he might have tried for years to figure out what he could have done to keep his brother from becoming homeless: if he had only done this or that, then the brother would have been ok. So, when he sees House being unhappy and strange, he takes extraordinary measures to get him to change. Since he can't accept that people don't change, he meddles more and more, nearly getting House imprisoned, etc. So that's how the dysfunction has been working: Wilson insisting that he has to change and House insisting that W accept him as he is, even acknowledge that he is right. So with that dynamic, neither one of them can get what they want, and we're back to the philosopher Jagger. I guess now we find out if they can get what they need.
ETA: I know I'm simplifying here to make a point. Just talking about the general trend. There have been exceptions on both sides.
IHARTHUGH- 09-17-2008
Anyone think to look at the sets to see, as Hugh mentioned on Leno the other night, if they were "about two feet wider"? I only thought about it at one point, when the camera panned the hospital's entrance hall - it did look bigger, or that central desk or whatever it is looked smaller. Thoughts?
travlncarrie- 09-17-2008
I'd wondered what would be the outcome of House's skull fracture - apparently it healed just fine. He mentions it, but I don't think otherwise there's any discussion, any fallout, any physical problems.
Not that I expect this show to be accurate when it comes to medicine, but there's just no way there's no fallout, no problems generated from that skull fracture.
My SO had a motorcycle accident in April. He had an undiagnosed concussion. He has since seen a neurologist, who explained to him that basically his brain needs about a year to fully heal all the pathways. Imagine the busiest city near you and close the two major arteries into it, forcing everyone onto the side streets. That's the kind of traffic he's dealing with every time he tries to pay attention to a conversation. It is slowly improving.
If this show has even one foot in the reality of our world, they will show House with some kind of problem. There's just no way he's already full recovered.
I read up on the injury a bit, and there are some very severe after affects from such an injury. I'm interested to see if they allow him to drive, because apparently licenses are revoked after such an injury (though I don't know the time frame for that). I too have had friends with similar (though not as severe) injuries, and they've definitely gone a year or more dealing with the aftermath of those surgeries. One will have a life time of tinnitus (ringing in the ears).
I know it isn't David Shore's perogative to delve into the physical, but a little realism on the medical side (particuarly given it's a medical show) would be nice. Maybe we'll see something upcoming, who knows.
idonmatrix- 09-17-2008
I loved this episode. I thought everyone was just excellent. But the final scene. OMG!! the final scene was perfecttion. House had to appear sincere and manipulative at the same time and it worked. RSL had to speak his truth and it worked. I have been replaying and replaying the final scene because it's just so amazing. It was all meat.
I also liked the scene between Wilson and Cameron. It's like the writers wrote to Cameron's strengths. I hope we get more scenes like that between her and Wilson. I also liked all of 13's scenes, epsecially her interactions with the patient.
Foreman was good too in his scenes with the team and with Wilson. And Taub and Kutner both win.
The scene between House and Wilson in Cuddy's office revealed the depth of their connection. They pretended to have a conversation (men ae from Mars type conversation) then they get up at the same time.
It also felt as if they were giving us a peek into how the Huddy may emerge. I definitely think it will be job-related.
Geez!! HL and RSL are just so hot together. The chemistry is just made of awesome. The ending was painful but real.
sherlockjr- 09-17-2008
So here's something that I've been thinking about. Please pardon the psychobabble, if it turns out that's what it is. :-)
Why were these two ever friends (or if not friends, whatever they were). Consider the psychology of the individual. What House never got from his dad was acceptance, and even more, the acknowledgement that his way was right. It was the struggle of his youth, or at least that seems to me to be what we've been told. Wilson is like his dad in that way: he always says House is lucky when he's right, never giving him credit for his genius. By withholding that approval, acceptance, and acknowledgement (which House does get from Cuddy), Wilson becomes the dad figure that House can never please.
For Wilson, he might have tried for years to figure out what he could have done to keep his brother from becoming homeless: if he had only done this or that, then the brother would have been ok. So, when he sees House being unhappy and strange, he takes extraordinary measures to get him to change. Since he can't accept that people don't change, he meddles more and more, nearly getting House imprisoned, etc. So that's how the dysfunction has been working: Wilson insisting that he has to change and House insisting that W accept him as he is, even acknowledge that he is right. So with that dynamic, neither one of them can get what they want, and we're back to the philosopher Jagger. I guess now we find out if they can get what they need.
Wow. That's really good. And very psychologically sound.
Umbrella- 09-17-2008
I think it's important to acknowledge that there probably wasn't anything he could have done in the episode that would have merited your approval.
I apologize if I sound snippy, but I don't think I should acknowledge that at all because it's not actually true of me. I was actually ready to be very sympathetic toward him in this episode; I don't completely devalue his existence just because I dislike him. But I'll acknowledge any day that I'm very biased against him.
That's probably more than enough about me. :wink: Onto the show again:
The show explores what David Shore is interested in. It has become very obvious that he is not interested in the physical recovery process.
Sad but true! I guess we'll have to leave explorations of recovery to the fic writers--and many of them do it very well, so at least there's no huge loss there.
but I wondered about whether House actually had liked her (I think he did, sort of, in his own way)
Definitely agree on that one. He seemed to have a grudging like for her by the time he had to fire her (loved his line to Cuddy--"they both ") and that probably grew even more as he began to realize she wasn't out to get Wilson praying-mantis-style.
Also, I"m loving the way the timeline of the bus accident is always getting reworked in whichever way makes House look worse.
Right! I wish now they had actually made it in the middle of the night, everything following would have made a lot more sense.
And for Boffle, all I can do is echo the wow above me. Thank you for an excellent bit of thought to chew on.
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